Leadership & Business Consulting - The DL S3E22 is now available on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, IGTV, and YouTube. 

In this episode of The DL, Diesel Laptops’ Founder and CEO, Tyler Robertson, is joined by Business Consultant and Leadership Expert, Louis J. Fernandez.

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As always, thank you for watching and listening!

CONNECT WITH Louis J. Fernandez:

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/louis-jonathan-fernandez

Website – https://louisjfernandez.com/

Transcript for Leadership & Business Consulting - The DL S3E22:

Tyler Robertson: 

Welcome to The DL. I am your host, Tyler Robertson. This is the podcast show where we talk about  everything going on in the on highway diesel powered equipment world, now the electric world. We talk about off highway equipment. And today I got someone here that actually used to work for one of these  off highway equipment manufacturers, but is now actually helping a lot of businesses save expenses and  do a lot of other stuff. So I think we're going to have a great conversation today. So let me welcome  Louis to the show. Welcome The DL, sir. 

Louis: 

Hey, man. Thank you for having me. I love the name by the way, The DL, multiple layers to that. And I love a great multilayered thought provoking statement. So thank you for having me. 

Tyler Robertson: 

So I like it too, but it's so short. It doesn't describe what the show is. So people I think that are browsed  are like, what the heck's The DL? I have no idea. So it's good and it's bad. 

Louis: 

If you know, you know. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Yeah, we're figuring it out. And we've got someone new here helping us with the podcast now. So I think  you'll see some set changes and our recent camera angle changes. So constant evolution trying to make  it a better and better thing for everybody. 

Louis: 

Well, it's smart to bring in the experts, the people that do this that know. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Yeah. I started to learn a while ago, since you bring that up, let's kind of hop right into it here. People ask  me all the time, Tyler, how did you keep growing the company? And the thing I had to really, I guess I  got a couple points across to them is, one, I had to get okay with paying people more than I pay myself.  And two, I had to not be in control of things anymore. So I know you work with a lot of businesses. Do you see them getting stuck at certain levels? What do you see and how do you try to help those people? 

Louis: 

Okay. So a few things, and really appreciate that question. Thank you so much for asking that because it is a frustrating point for me with a lot of folks. I do a variety of things to help business owners. And I kind of sort of stumbled into expanding my service. We started with just purely cost reduction. And I found  that if somebody needs to improve their COGS, the cost of good sold and they need to make it better, if  I just solve seven or eight different ancillary costs, but don't get to the root cause of the problem, we're not really solving what's going on, and the reason why they're coming to me. 

And usually when they come to me, it's already gotten really bad. They finally feel like we really  have to have this conversation about controlling the cost. But the reason in a lot of what I find when we  start talking root cause is, one, a lack of delegation. So kind of pushing the leadership side. And I talk about it in the book on leadership, a lot about relinquishing control. And so with business owners, if I  can do it 100%, you have to get comfortable with a 75 or 80% solution that you're going to pay money  for. And there's a reason why you want to do that. 

Your decision making is a muscle. So if you're always working that muscle out on menial decisions, then the big ones, you're going to be exhausted for and you make poor decisions. And maybe to monetize this a little bit and say, if every decision tree in your company has you in it, you will never sell. You can't. You cannot sell that company because you are the company. So you need to start getting yourself out of those decisions and allow other people to make them. And surprisingly, you may find they may be better at it than you, and they're going to look at the problem differently than you will as  well. 

I talk to a lot of owners, and when are the times of inspiration when you come up with a new  idea and you level up the business? Usually it happens when you made a good hire at a senior level decision. You've passed on responsibility and then all of a sudden, you had this bright idea. I hired a director of operations and now all of a sudden I'm like, wait, we can actually launch a new product. That's usually when those things happen. Or you go on vacation and you get away from the business and then you come back and you're like, here's.  

So the point is that when you relax that decision making muscle, whether it's bringing in a consultant or hiring somebody new or taking a vacation, getting that moment of rest to the decisions that you're making all the time, it's really what's going to allow you to level up the business. But if you never take a vacation and you're afraid to hire people to take on those tasks and you won't bring in a  consultant because they're too expensive, or whatever it may be, you're going to get stuck. You're going  to get stuck for a while. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Yeah. I think you were maybe spying or had some dropping going on in some of our conversations here last year or so, because you pretty much summed up what we went through and we still go through. But  t was the same thing. And I think every company, depending on what your business is, kind of hits a  plateau. And I didn't understand why at the time, but now after going through it and realizing that I was  the bottleneck and I was the one causing the problems and not my employees, I had to get out of my  own way. And that's really, really difficult for CEOs, leaders, especially founders. If you throw the word founder in there, it's even more difficult because it's your baby that you created and grew up.  

So people listening to this, I see it all the time. I talk to clients, I talk to vendors and just like Louis was saying, when you're having a conversation and every time you ask, well, who do we go for this, who do we go for that, and it's the CEO or the owner raising his hand, I was just like, I know we're  going to be in trouble here. This is never going to move forward with the velocity that I need it to. 

Louis: 

Right. Yeah. And being comfortable with allowing people to make decisions. I've had conversations with  folks where I've looked at kind of their employee side, which is another one that's happening a lot lately,  is we can't retain, we can't recruit all of these kind of problems. And I'm looking at some of their  employees and I'm looking at what is the market rate? And I'm talking to folks and I say, look, here's a  really good employee that you have that has a really strong potential future. You need to give them a  two or $3 raise.  

And they balk of that. Well, that's got to be president level, only the top people and that's way  more than 10% and blah, blah, blah. And I say, wait, hold on. That is a $6,000 decision, because it's 2080 hours a year. You're going to pay them $3 for that. It's a $6,000 decision. Why are you holding that at  the very top level of a company with 1500, 2000 employees. Stop doing that. And then they leave and  then you go back to this, we're cycling through this, this is so hard. If we start looking at the, how many $6,000 decisions do you make a day, man? This is not a difficult choice. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Yeah. That's looking at the bigger picture, not the smaller picture, I think a lot of people get caught up  on. And kind of since you brought up on employment, this is one of the things I wanted to talk to you  about. And I've seen you post about it on LinkedIn and talk about it. I don't think any of us are immune from this great resignation area and this whole time that's going on. And I think sometimes people look  at my company and they go, they're fast growing, they do these exciting things. People, we lose employees too.  

But the question I want to ask you is kind of the interesting thing I've seen lately, is we've had a couple of employees leave for other companies and they just got huge pay raises. We just had a guy turning his notice and he literally was like, well, I'm getting a $30,000 year raise with somebody else. And we've had that a couple times where people have taken VP jobs somewhere and I'm like, man, I  know you, I've worked with you for a year or two, you're not vice president level. But they're getting  those roles. Is it getting that bad out there where people are kind of getting brought into roles they're  not really ready for? Or am I just overreacting? What are you seeing? 

Louis: 

Well, I think there's a little bit of that and there's a risk associated with on the employee side as well. So  there's multiple factors. One is flexibility and work schedules, that's been a big one. Benefits packages  and then title changes as well. But I think if anybody comes to you, if you're looking for someone to give  you an idea, and if I was to tell you, Tyler, this is the five things you got to do to retain employees. Then  you should know immediately that everything I just said is BS. And don't pay attention to anything  because I don't know your employees, I don't know your company. I haven't talked to anybody that's  working for you. And if I'm willing to offer you solutions without doing that, then my advice is BS. So just  ignore it. That's what I would say. 

The person that you do need to listen to is the one that says, well, if you want to solve this  problem, we need to actually do some research. The same way we do research about our customers and  our client base. If I want to sell to somebody, I establish what does that person look like. You're going to  say, this is my ideal customer and then you're going to know everything about them. What they value,  what are their principles, what do they read, what platforms social media are they on, who are their  friends, what are they talking, all of these things.  

We need to do that internally. Flip it back and look at the folks that are working for us. Why do  they choose us? Why do they like working here? What type of person is successful in our company?  What are the things they value the most? Is it just money? Is it something else? Do they like our  mission? And if we understand that picture, then we can build teams that are going to be more  successful. We can create job postings that are going to attract that person, so we have less turnover.  We have a culture that we know who we're looking for because we want people that are going to value  X, Y, Z. And then we can increase the value to our own personnel based on the things that we  determine, these are the biggest factors of why people choose to work for us. So don't trust anybody  who tries to give you the answer. Don't listen to them. 

Tyler Robertson:

Well, I'll tell you what, I know we kind of just jumped right into this conversation. So it's kind of weird to  hear this in the middle, but I'd love people get a little bit more of a background. Where did you come from? What do you do? I kind of mentioned you work in a big OEM previously. What are you doing now? And then I think drill into a little bit about the cost saving stuff. 

Louis: 

Okay. Sure. So I'm a former army officer. I joined the military not long after September 11th. Did a tour  in Iraq and Afghanistan. And then I spent some time working in military intelligence on the counter weapons of mass destruction, kind of global intel picture. So I had the opportunity to lead a platoon of soldiers in the mountains of Afghanistan, way low tactical level, and then also work for a general on  weapons of mass destruction, kind of global picture. So just getting the full gamut of that. 

I worked for John Deere for a while. Brought a bunch of new products to market for them, was a  program manager, a product manager, did some marketing, led an assembly line. I worked for  Caterpillar for a time at a dealership. So understood what's going on, on the dealer side of working on  this equipment. Which really, I was actually talking to someone today about your company and the  value that it brings and how I did a ride along with a field service tech and we drove three hours and  then realized there was a fuse on this motor grader that needed replaced. And I just think often about  how that guy spent probably close to $600 to replace a fuse. And if he had had a diesel laptop, maybe  that wouldn't have been a problem.  

And then during COVID, I was, I was kind of in a senior position and had to send everybody  home in the office and I was alone in the office, the kind of where you have to move your arms so the  lights don't turn off on you. And I realized I'm working for a billion dollar company and we're able to  sustain what's going on right now, but there's a lot of organizations out there that can't. I was in charge  of figuring out how we're going to flex to solve this problem. And I realized that there was an  opportunity in the marketplace there. 

And that's where I started with the Schooley Mitchell side of the business, which is just pure  cost reduction, looking at eight specific categories, telecom waste, shipping, fuel, these kinds of things.  And we just do an objective. We got 100 analysts that go and look at these different cost categories and  find savings for clients. And we only get paid from the savings, so there's no upfront cost. And I thought  here's an opportunity to really help a lot of folks out and to get through what we're going through.  

And like I said, through these conversations with business owners and the like, and I realized,  okay, I've got 20 years of experience leading teams. I've been through all of this stuff. I've brought new  products to market, I've built assembly lines from scratch, I've developed marketing plans, and that  gives me kind of a unique perspective and my decision making muscle isn't exhausted. So I can come in  here and do a walk around and say, you guys have no lean operation in here whatsoever. How do your  employees know that they're winning every day? 

And identify problems like the decision tree. You're in every part of the decision tree. If I can't  have a conversation with a CEO for 30 minutes without the phone ringing seven times, getting 24 texts  and hearing the email pinging, and then somebody walking into the office for a quick interruption,  you're making too many decisions. So that's where I started to expand this out and say, I can solve a lot  more problems and help your business in a lot of ways. And that's also how the leadership book sort of  came about. 

Tyler Robertson:

All right. So I have to ask this question. So before on the air, we we're talking about how you got three  kids sounds like around my kids' ages, all under the age of 12. You are a veteran, you got your own business going on, where are you finding time to write a book? Because I've always had that in the back  of my head. Like man, I'd love to write a book about this story one day, but I'm like, I just don't have the  time. So how do I find the time to do that? 

Louis: 

I delegate a lot of stuff. Somebody said to me one time many years ago, said, how many minimum wage  tasks are you doing? And I kind of thought about because I was a program manager actually. And we  were getting paid a significant amount of money, it was probably close to 10 grand a month, by a  Fortune 100 company. And three of the program managers, and in the beginning, myself included, we  were spending a lot of time on PowerPoint and Excel, creating presentations and stuff. And I realized,  what a waste of money. That is not what I'm sure John Deere wants me to be doing with my time and my money. 

And so finding ways of delegating these tasks to folks that are interested or want to grow,  potential future leaders and saying, hey, you do this and you can present and you can get in front of the  director and you can showcase your skill sets and give you opportunities. And I realized by doing that, I  also was the only guy who had six projects. Everybody else had one or two, I had six full-time projects.  Gave work direction to 90 employees across three different countries and everybody was like, the same  question, how do you find time? I don't do it all, man. 

Tyler Robertson: 

I'm right there with you. I can tell you about a year and a half ago, we hired an executive assistant that  kind of helps all of us executives out. And just having someone to deal with arranging things and flights  and travels and meetings, was a huge lifesaver. But then I actually hired a virtual assistant as well. So  one of the things I wanted to do this year was get on more podcasts. So I hired a virtual assistant and  said, go book me on these types of podcasts. 

And she's been doing a great job. And she's actually been working me up and up into bigger and  bigger podcast networks. I just got launched on a pretty big one yesterday they agreed to do. So it is  amazing once you start hiring people to help you do things, how much time that can save you and  money. But talking about money savings, your whole cost reduction thing that you do, is it aim towards  small business, medium business, enterprise levels? Who is your ideal customer that you're looking for? 

Louis: 

I would say medium to large size businesses. The small businesses, I do by exception because we are  putting in the time and the money upfront. So there is no upfront cost to them and we're splitting the savings with, with the folks that we do. So there's an additional risk when we get into the smaller sized  clients, because it's going to cost me regardless if we save the money. With medium and larger clients  usually is where folks that are growing quickly, that's where opportunities for inefficiencies pop in. 

And so what we're going to do is we're going to first look for any errors that may exist. Maybe you have a double billing that happens twice a year that you just didn't realize, and the company, the  vendor didn't realize it either. That would be a billing error that we correct. Then we look for  optimization of services. Like you've got people retiring or quitting or whatever, and you've bought them  all cell phones, but instead of canceling the line, you're just going to give it to the next person when you refill that role. Well, you end up going 3, 4, 5 months and you're paying for these lines that you don't need.  

And there's a whole bunch of other things that we look for there in the optimization services.  And then negotiating with the vendors to find opportunities to help them. So when you're a larger company, there's more opportunity there for us to find in efficiencies, to negotiate with vendors, to find  all of the special programs and deals that vendors have. So we look for that medium to large company.  Somebody who's shipping a lot of products, third party logistics, manufacturers, eCommerce folks, these are great opportunities where we can, and heavy equipment folks, because you've got fleet tracking and  all of that. And there's a whole bunch of cool stuff we can do with fleet tracking as well. 

Tyler Robertson: 

So I know when COVID happened, previously, that we kind of cared about expenses like, hey, watch  where you're spending money, that type of thing. But we never really cared about it. But then COVID  happened and all of a sudden we cared about it. And it was actually amazing how we reduced a couple  of hundred thousand dollars a year of our company just by looking at it. So I can imagine businesses,  that's one of the things that just no one's looking at it. They're just kind of going through the motions  and this is what we always do for phones and services. But is there some key areas that kind of always  kind of check the boxes, like these are the three or four big ones that you mainly go after if people are  listening to this? 

Louis: 

So one would be cell phones. That's an easy one to kind of start with. So I've been that P&L guy that has  that ownership responsibility. Usually that comes with a lot of other responsibilities. And I know about my decision making muscle. So what do we decide when it comes to cell phones? Everybody gets the  unlimited plan. I'm not going to pay any overages. I know it's going to be 120 bucks a month per person.  Boom, that's set. And last year's phone. And then we just move forward from there. 

And so there's a lot of opportunity there where you get a bunch of folks that basically refuse to  use the phone. Like, no, you don't pay me to work offsite or when I'm not here. So when I'm at my desk, I'll answer and then otherwise not. And then you have a kind of the counter, the folks that are always  away from their desk. And so they take the desk phone and they forward it to the cell phone. So they  never use the desk phone, but you pay for that [inaudible 00:19:29] line. So there's opportunities on two different sides. 

Or there're folks that they're always on the wifi, so they never use any data because they're  either at work or they're at home. So you're paying for an unlimited data plan that's not being used.  There's all of that. It is unreasonable usually to say as a business owner that you will do that because it  may not be worth your time to invest into looking at that. But maybe it is, because we end up finding 50,  100, sometimes even million dollars not just in cell phones, but in the overall telecom space. 

Another one is shipping costs. There's a lot of error. You probably look at your shipping bills and  they're almost built to be convoluted and complicated on purpose. Reading them sometimes is like,  what am I getting billed for? There's seven pages on this stuff. And it's all these ancillary expenses and  20,000 base rates and all of the additional tack-ons, with signatures and additional costs, and residential  additional costs, all of these additional costs. And then we have seven different shippers that we use so  we don't actually get discounts with anybody. 

These are kind of things that if you have the opportunity to take and look through yourself and  really do that research, that makes sense. If you don't want to do that because you don't see the value, that's where we come in and of course can take care of that. Those are some things that we spot very  often. Or one of my favorites is the trash can, the dumpster outside that has a door on the side.  Immediately, I can pull into the parking lot and say, all right, that dumpster's a problem. Well, we got the  door because we have an older employee and having them reach over the top. Okay. But you're paying  for the full cubic feet of that entire dumpster, but you can only use up to the bottom of the door. Well,  we just close the door and put it over the top. So what the hell do you have the door for anyway? 

Tyler Robertson: 

What you're talking about is all the, we call them the unknown unknowns. You're a business owner, you  know your business, you don't understand all these things. So just to give the audience an example, we  went through this with UPS, where we ship a lot of packages out of here every day. And trust me, we're  a bunch of dumb truck guys figuring out how to ship product all around the United States. So we're not  reviewing contracts, understanding all these million rules they have.  

But apparently, we were just kind of guessing on the measurements, dimensional on the boxes  and then they would actually, if they were over the threshold, they'd charge us a fee to resize or redo  whatever. Well, when we finally figured that out, it was $40,000 a year because we weren't putting in  the exact measurements on the boxes. So for the audience listening to this, there's a lot of things like  that out there that you just don't know about or don't see or understand. And people like what Louis  does, they know these things. 

But do you guys get that granular? You were talking on the phone bills. Do you guys get that  granular down to like, Sally's not using data and this person's never using their desk phone. You go that  deep on all these different eight categories? 

Louis: 

On every single category. We test every single phone line. So one of the questions that we have is, do  you have an elevator because one's going to answer that phone. And when we're testing every single  line, we need to know what are the lines that are necessary but not in use. We do get that granular with  the packages because there's two ways of getting charged. You either get charged by the weight or by  the size of the package. And that's a delicate balance, because you also don't want to have 17 different  box sizes because you have got to store all 17 different box sizes. So there's a business case of, well, I  only want three different box sizes so that I have fewer things that I need to store or whatever. So  there's all of these levers. You pull this one down, this one's going to go up. So how do we do this in a  smart way that makes sense? And yeah, you have got to get that granular. 

Tyler Robertson: 

So what's the process like when you have a client that engages you? It's just, hey, Client, send me all  your invoices and we'll get back to you? Or what do they go through? 

Louis: 

Yeah. So the first thing we do is we'll sit down, we'll talk about the contract. And basically the client will  agree that if I save them money, they're going to pay me. And if I don't save money, they're not going to  pay me. And there's a little bit of detail that goes into that contract agreement. They give me access to  their billing statements, invoices and contracts. And then because I delegate all that stuff, we hand it off  to the analysis team. We've got 100 people there. They're focused on each category. And they go  through the bills, they call the service providers, they benchmark the cost.

And then I'll come back. Usually it takes a couple of months and we'll come back and say, okay,  look, here's three different options that you have. If you do this option, you're going to save the most  money with your current vendor. The employees won't even notice there's a change. They may just  notice, they'll get an email that says, hey, if you decide to stop using wifi, please let us know. That will be  the extent of them knowing that we did all these changes to the cell phone plans or whatever. And like,  hey, Sally, you're not using your cell phone, just go ahead and turn it in.  

And voila, we've just saved you $25,000 a year. And nobody even noticed. 85% of the time folks  stay with the current vendor. Yeah. And so we'll say, hey, here's three different options. Which one do  you like? And they say A, B or C. And then we help with the implementation. And then we actually stick  around because a lot of consultants, they'll give you that, hey, this is what you need to do. Good luck,  high five.  

Because we're expensive, so when it comes to my operational stuff and strategic stuff, that's  maybe what I'll do is say, here's what you need to do to make these operational changes. After that, you  implement it. If you have questions, then call me, but otherwise you don't want to spend a hundred  bucks an hour to have me execute that. You have people that work for you to do that.  

But with the Schooley side, because we're sharing in the savings, we actually stick around and  we do a new analysis every to make sure that everything we said would happen is actually happening. And we identify maybe some new inefficiencies pop in or if your business grows and now you can get  new savings, we'll execute those as well. So it's a three year kind of partnership. 

Tyler Robertson: 

All right. Sounds like an interesting business. The point I want to talk about is, how do you get new clients? And can you talk a little bit, I guess, about LinkedIn. I see you on LinkedIn all the time. I'm on  LinkedIn there too posting stuff. How long have you been doing it for? How does it work for you? Maybe  give the audience a sense of followers or how you think that's going on LinkedIn. 

Louis:

Yeah. So social media cannot be ignored. A lot of folks, they've heard this. And so I've seen some jobs  posted that there's social media managers, also market managers, also product managers, also website  development, front end web development. These are all 25 different things, not the same person. Social media is, you've probably heard the statement, your network is your net worth. And so depending on where your client base is, you want to have a presence where they are. It's free marketing to get in front of as many people as I get in front of. My last post had 17,000 impressions. So I got in front of 17,000 people. How much would it cost me to do that? And I did it on the toilet on my phone from whatever idea I had. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Yeah. I'm there too. I'm usually just on my boat or somewhere else.

Louis: 

I was just being real and honest, which is the next point of that's how you're successful on social media.  We all know when you're on whatever platform you're on, you recognize an ad before you're impressed by that ad. You already know, I'm already scrolling past it because I know that next one's an ad. And I'm not interested in looking at ads, I'm interested in getting to know people. So we have this and being more client or network focused. I say client because when I'm talking to a business, that's what I'm trying to tell them, is you  need to be client centric. People want to hear stories about people. Your page, Tyler's LinkedIn page, is going to always get more engagement and be more popular than Diesel Laptops' LinkedIn page. Elon Musk versus Tesla, they could tweet the exact same thing. Elon's page is going to get a lot more. And we can even get to what was the first moon rover, nobody cares. But we all know Neil Armstrong. We care about people. We have empathy, this kind of ingrained, we want to hear people's stories and hear about  them. And what are the thoughts on what's going on in your world?  

So being people-centric, and then if you're a business being customer-centric is what are the  things that your client base cares about and how do we bring them forward? Right. So if I share something about Diesel Laptops, me personally, and I'm like, hey, Tyler and I got together and we did  this podcast and look at how cool, that adds value to you, it adds value to me. The network thinks it's  nteresting. People are going to engage with that. Being personal, personable and being human-centric  and client-centric, really, if you want to stay high level or how to be successful, that's what's going to,  that's what's going to draw people to you. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Yeah. You're 100% right. I just found LinkedIn as an outlet for me several years ago, I was like, man, I just need a place to talk about the things in my life because none of my friends or family understand what  I'm going through. So for me, I've always done, I think what you just said. Hey, be transparent. Just keep  hrowing it out there. And you know what, I can say [inaudible 00:29:18] I never go on there and say, hey, buy this thing for me or go fill this form out to do something. 

I never do that. But yet every week I get people approaching me on LinkedIn, usually through direct messages. Like hey, I'm interested in your thing. I want to try it out, which is great. But [inaudible  00:29:32] have you tried any of the paid stuff on LinkedIn? We have. I'm going to give you my opinion.  I'd love to know if you've tried anything on there yet and if it's worked for you. 

Louis: 

I have not. I had a free trial version of one. It didn't really work for me. I'm not big in popping into people's DMS. I'm not a huge fan of that to try and sell. I've tried a few different things, but really what  works is engaging with somebody else's content. When I see somebody who posts something and then  never replies to any comments, and then they worry, why isn't it working? Well, you're going to a  networking meeting, you're standing up on the table, you're making an announcement and then you're  not talking to anyone. And then you're wondering why nobody wants to talk to you. Or you're not  talking to them. It's a social networking. So go out there, engage with them, engage in their content. Hey  man, that's a really cool. Here's my thought on this thing that you just posted. Yeah, I don't do the paid  stuff. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Yeah. So we do paid ads on Facebook, we do paid ads on Google and those do really well and generate us leads. And we've tried the same. So the paid stuff where you're scrolling through your feed on LinkedIn, a little ad comes up. So it's just amazing that it works so well for us in the other platforms, even TikTok's working well, but I cannot get it to work on LinkedIn. We have changed the copy, we've changed the landing page. None of the math ever works. And I think I've tried six times now and I'm kind of done with it. But the organic, just talking about our business and challenges and wins seems to work for us to this point.

Louis: 

I know there's certain LinkedIn ads experts out there. I know one in particular who may be good. But  similar to you, to me, the value is in generating engaging content and then conversations like this kind of  pop up. And I've had people say, they'll send me a message and be like, do you work with nonprofits?  That's the initial message, do you work with nonprofits? Yeah, I do. Let's have a conversation. And it was  just from seeing us talk about what we do. 

But again, when people finally come to me, the problem;s already kind of big. And so it's a  bigger issue that we need to solve. And I just wish folks would come talk to me when things are going  well. Before it's chaos, because it's going to take me a few months to do what I need to do. And  sometimes it's like, well, I don't have that much time. I don't know what I could do for you, man. Just  come to me when things are good. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Well, I know that you are a busy person. I know you got a lot going on as we've been talking about here.  But if people want to find you and by the way, for the audience listening, you should definitely find him  here on LinkedIn. He's got some great content. He constantly puts it out there and very much engages.  

He's doing all the right things. If you want to know how to win at LinkedIn, just follow what Louis is  doing. So Louis, how do they find you on LinkedIn? And what's your website to learn more about the  cost saving stuff? 

Louis: 

Yeah. Well just go to Louis J Fernandez, L-O-U-I-S, J Fernandez. I'm going to be probably the first one  that's going to pop up in your search bar. I've got about 12,000 followers there. I think that's why Tyler's  saying. So that's a good place to start. Anything you want to know about me, really, LinkedIn is my social  media home. It's where my potential clients are. The folks I'm looking to talk to, that's what they're  engaging with. So that's where I'm at and that's where to find me. 

And then I've got links to all the websites and stuff like that from there. And I told Tyler when we  started that my son is, my 12 year old who I can't get away from a computer is actually updating my  website, louisjfernandez.com. So it's going to be different. And I'm looking forward to being able to get  out there and say, hey, you can go on it now. But it may look different 10 minutes later, because he is  playing with it as we talk. 

Tyler Robertson: 

Well, yours must be doing better with computers because you got him building websites. Yesterday, I  found out my 11 year old got banned from Minecraft for three days for doing something inappropriate  on there. So I have got to dig into that one here today. So with that said, we're going to wrap this  episode up guys. I think it's a great episode. I think we need to do more of these, man. Just kind of have  some conversational business, leadership, all these things going on in the world. I really enjoy these type  of conversations.  

So thank you very much for coming on. As we end every episode, it's not just diagnostics, it's  diagnostics done right. And in your business, there are ways to save money that you probably don't even  know. Talk to Louis, I'm sure he can help you. Thank you for watching and listening. We'll catch you on  the next one.